Perception Attributes

A list maintained by Omnidon to provide a recap of all user-submitted feature requests for BRPG.

If Perception Attributes are NOT added....

I will not use BRPG
0
No votes
I will cry
0
No votes
I'll grumble a bunch
7
32%
I'll be ok
11
50%
I would never use this feature anyway
4
18%
 
Total votes: 22

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Omnidon
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Perception Attributes

Post by Omnidon » Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:26 am

Relevant to BRPG version: 1.3

Note that this feature is not directly related to Fog of War
  • What are Perception Attributes?
    This thread discusses the idea of perception attributes associated with figures that determine when objects and figures can be seen, even when the entire map is revealed.

    While many game systems use dice rolls for this purpose (Listen check vs. Move Silently check for example), it is a big time-saver to use attributes.
  • Obscurity
    I will use the term Obscurity to refer to the attribute of a figure or object that determines how hard it is to perceive.

    When something has high Obscurity, I shall refer to it as Obscured, to distinguish it from the GM's Hide function.

    Obscurity should be something that can be set for every unit at any time in BRPG.

    While alone, this feature is useless, it is vital to the other suggestions in this thread.
  • Awareness
    This is the idea that even when characters can clearly see something, they may not always notice it.
    It should be possible to specify a character's Awareness, which determines whether the character is perceptive enough to notice something that is Obscured.

    -Example-

    Let's say that an NPC elf is trying to sneak past the player's paladin character.

    The paladin's Awareness = 50
    The elf's Obscurity = 40
    50 > 40

    The paladin's Awareness is greater than the elf's Obscurity so the elf becomes visible to the player. Otherwise the elf would've remained invisible.
  • Detect Illusion
    As Balesir pointed out, Awareness (or a similar attribute) often determines whether a character can distinguish illusion from reality.

    Instead of causing hidden things to appear, this variation would cause illusions to disappear or become semi-transparent.
  • Distance Penalty
    Many gaming systems use the idea of a constant penalty applied to Awareness over a set distance, such as every 10 feet.

    This penalty would most likely be a statistic that is set globally for all creatures.

    -Example-
    If the distance penalty is -5 every 10 feet, then the Orc with 30 Awareness would effectively have 15 Awareness when trying to spot the Elf 30 feet away.
  • Discovery Range
    An alternative or addition to the both Awareness and Distance Penalty is Discovery Range.
    This is the idea that characters can only notice Obscured things when they are a certain distance away. Until they are within that distance, the thing remains invisible.

    The distance is measured from the edge of the character's Personal Space to the edge of the Obscured thing's Occupied Space.

    -Example-

    The player's old gnome is getting nearsighted and can never see things clearly.
    Although the broad daylight keeps the fog of war at bay, he will often fail to notice people and objects until they are right in front of his face.

    So let's say he drops his glasses in the grass.

    Gnome's Discovery Range = 3
    Distance Between Base of Gnome & Base of Glasses = 4
    3<4

    The gnome fails to see his glasses because his Discovery Range is lower than the distance.
  • Distance Ratio
    It is possible to combine both Awareness and Discovery Range.

    This is the idea that a character's Awareness scales down over distance.

    The character uses his full Awareness for anything in his Personal Space. Each cell beyond that will have a reduction in Awareness proportional to Discovery Range.

    -Formula-

    A = Full Awareness
    R = Discovery Range
    D = Distance between Character Base and Base of Obscured Object
    X = Modified Awareness
    Y = Obscurity of Object

    X = A / (R / D)

    If X > Y then the Object is Discovered

    If X < Y then the Object is Invisible

    -Example-

    An axe is lying in the grass near a dwarf.
    The dwarf's Awareness = 100
    The dwarf's Discovery Range = 10
    Distance to Axe = 5
    Obscurity of Axe = 30

    10 / 5 = 2
    100 / 2 = 50

    The dwarf's modified awareness at 5 tiles away is 50

    Since the dwarf's awareness of that space (50) is greater than the obscurity of the axe (30), the dwarf manages to spot the axe on the ground.

    -Note-

    If this feature is added, then the option to disable it so that Discovery Range and Awareness remain independant should be included.
  • Cells vs. Pixels
    For the purpose of explanation, I used number of cells to describe distances.

    However, as with Fog of War, I think it should also be possible to determine distance based on pixels rather than number of cells, so that the feature remains useful when the grid is disabled and Snap to Grid is turned off.

    There is a discussion thread about Cells vs. Pixels:
    http://www.battlegroundsgames.com/phpBB ... .php?t=560
Last edited by Omnidon on Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:36 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Kepli
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Post by Kepli » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:10 pm

Nice for a future version, but I doubt I will be using it myself. :)
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Balesir
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Post by Balesir » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:45 pm

Not essential right away - but a good example of how a VT app can add value over standard tabletop play. Real figures that are visible only to a select few players when placed on the tabletop are really expensive... :wink:
Balesir

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Post by Salmonday » Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:54 pm

I would always be in favor of more control over visibility. If I run Call of Cthulhu or any other style of gothic horror adventures, I want to include characters in a crowd who are visible as insanity effects only to a select player. I don't THINK you can make a character uniquely visible this way in the pre-release version right now (still starting out).

But multi-faceted control over visibility is definitely a GM's best friend...

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heruca
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Post by heruca » Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:54 pm

Welcome, Salmonday.

I do indeed plan to eventually add a means to make units visible to just selected players. I'm just not sure if I'll be automating what is and what isn't visible. At least not in the first incarnation of the feature.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.

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Post by Salmonday » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:38 pm

A means to manually set it is perfectly fine by me!

Good luck on this wonderful project. If I take to the toolset, I'll probably be ready with cash in hand for a GM and five floater registrations when the blessed day arrives.

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heruca
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Post by heruca » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:45 pm

Thanks. That day isn't far off. Sometime this month.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.

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Omnidon
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Post by Omnidon » Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:40 am

heruca wrote:I do indeed plan to eventually add a means to make units visible to just selected players. I'm just not sure if I'll be automating what is and what isn't visible. At least not in the first incarnation of the feature.
Yes, this thread was just meant to keep track of this particular suggestion.

I certainly don't expect all suggestions to be added in version 1.x

I forgot to put the "hide different things for different players" suggestion in there. I'll find somewhere for it soon.
EDIT: I did add the latter to the Unit Settings list.

Balesir
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Post by Balesir » Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:11 am

An idea that occurs to me which is related to this: illusions (and similar effects). I.e., instead of high awareness making something visible, it might also make something invisible (or, maybe, even translucent?). This would be very cool for magical effects giving 'TrueSight' and the like, as well as for actual illusory objects and figures.

Also, for the range/awareness suggestion, remember that several systems (including d20 and GURPS, IIRC) use a 'logarithmic' approach. In other words, instead of ratioing the awareness figure, range applies a straight linear penalty to it (e.g. -2 awareness per 10 feet range). This seems a simpler and, potentially, more generic approach, to me...
Balesir

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Omnidon
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Post by Omnidon » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:07 am

Balesir wrote:An idea that occurs to me which is related to this: illusions (and similar effects). I.e., instead of high awareness making something visible, it might also make something invisible (or, maybe, even translucent?). This would be very cool for magical effects giving 'TrueSight' and the like, as well as for actual illusory objects and figures.
Yeah, that's a good variation, and in some systems may be a separate perception attribute altogether.
Balesir wrote:Also, for the range/awareness suggestion, remember that several systems (including d20 and GURPS, IIRC) use a 'logarithmic' approach. In other words, instead of ratioing the awareness figure, range applies a straight linear penalty to it (e.g. -2 awareness per 10 feet range). This seems a simpler and, potentially, more generic approach, to me...
Very true. Once again, a good variation.
I'll add them both to the list when I do my next big batch of updates.

EDIT: Added to list.

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