What have we learned so far? [OLD]

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Mind Flayer Monk
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What have we learned so far? [OLD]

Post by Mind Flayer Monk » Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:06 am

Hello all,
Lots of great feedback here from all the posters, it really makes me excited to be one of the first people to buy BRPG.

Because I want BRPG to succeed, how about a short review?
What have we learned so far? What are the options that seem to generate lots of interest and people want?

I will start with two things I've learned

1) Fog of War and Fog of War control will be the greatest selling point of BRPG (well Dundjinni map support and that together)

2) Dev is very interested in giving the users what they want

I figure we can keep refining this post and come up with a Core 3 or Core 5 things that users will want.
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Post by heruca » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:48 am

I can say that the feedback on this forum has already made BRPG much better than it would have been. The Dice Roller is much improved, the image Previews are bigger, and the Fog of War and text-labeling features are now going to be incredibly customizable, all thanks to the excellent feedback posted here. The very existence of floating licenses (and the ability to permanently transfer them) are also a direct result of what people have requested.

The Area of Effects overlay feature, which was mostly an afterthought before, is now a major component and possibly another big selling point, mostly thanks to Erian_7, who decided to take an active role and actually created all of the overlay graphics, allowing me to focus my efforts on coding.

As for BRPG's support for DJ maps, I've actually gotten a lot of flack for it on other forums. People say things like "sure, the graphics look nice, but that's mostly DJ, and I can already do that with [insert competing product here]." and they immediately dismiss BRPG, without bothering to see what else it offers. When people see my screenshots, it's apparently hard for them to see and appreciate what isn't there: No screen clutter with half a dozen windows open at once, no ugly organizational trees taking up half the screen, no cryptic icons or toolbars, etc.

Do I need to make some new screenshots using ugly maps and generic number/letter figure tokens to please these people? Am I losing potential customers because the DJ maps are getting all the attention?
Last edited by heruca on Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.

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Post by Kepli » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:20 am

Good point Heruca ...

I would say "Yes" ... make a few screenshots with maps made with other programs. Just to show what the program offers besides having a large user-base in and support from the DJ community.
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Post by Halebop » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:20 am

Agreed Heruca. You probably need to make screenshots outlining just what you've said here. It's (mostly?) all map - no overly intrusive interface. The extra real estate gained by removing visible menus is a huge advantage. On a tabletop we might be able to stretch out a carefully prepared map over several square feet (My record in an overzealous moment was about a 4 feet x 3 feet inkjet battlemap). On a monitor the average user is probably restricted to 15 to 21 inches. Sacrificing half that space to some form of heads up display menu is a significant negative.

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Post by erian_7 » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:18 pm

Thirded. When I first looked at the screen shoots I thought, "Huh, those are just some DJ maps, right?" On closer inspection I started to see the dice (missed them completely the first time around), the character facing and condition indicators on the tokens, and such. What might be really good is a shoot of an entire computer desktop (maybe at 1280x1024) so you can see the BRPG app running, with some other windows open in the background. The image would have to be pretty large, but you could label it with features from BRPG directly in the image (maybe with each feature circled/pointed to/etc.) rather than in a descriptive paragraph so it's easy to see right off. Of course, once we get our grubby little hands on the app I'm sure we'll come up with other ways to showcase the features..
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Post by heruca » Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:50 pm

OK, seems pretty unanimous. So...

Does anyone have any premade battlemaps made with some other program that they'd like to submit, for use in some new screenshots? Or perhaps some generic tokens? It would all need to be copyright-free stuff, of course.

If not, I'll scrounge something together myself, but I'd rather not lose much development time.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.

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Post by erian_7 » Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:53 pm

Hmm, I'll dig around and see what I've got.


Oh, and just sent you the last batch of AoE templates, including the ones for space/reach.
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Post by siege » Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:09 pm

heruca wrote:Does anyone have any premade battlemaps made with some other program that they'd like to submit, for use in some new screenshots?
That makes me think... do you plan to include a "sample adventure" or "demo game" with the BGRP? I think it would be a Good Thing (TM) to have (even in the demo download) a few sample maps, some tokens, maybe a sound clip, so a GM would have a way to make instant use out of the program before sorting through their own maps, imporing or converting files, making tokens, etc...

I'd volunteer to make one, but my DJ skillz r n00b. Which is to say, I don't actually use DJ, nor do I know how to... yet.

Just a thought.
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Post by erian_7 » Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:35 pm

heruca beat yo to that one, as the Feature's page lists a Free Sample Adventure with the demo...
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Post by jpstod » Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:45 pm

I got jpg's of CCPro Maps and CityDesigner2 Maps I made I can send you to use without restrictions

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Post by heruca » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:37 pm

siege wrote:do you plan to include a "sample adventure" or "demo game" with the BGRP? I think it would be a Good Thing (TM) to have (even in the demo download) a few sample maps, some tokens, maybe a sound clip, so a GM would have a way to make instant use out of the program before sorting through their own maps, imporing or converting files, making tokens, etc...
Yes, for the Sneak Preview version due next week, I'll include a small package of tokens, a handful of sound effects, 2 or 3 maps, etc., so that people can get right to playing with the software, and don't have to spend time and effort scrounging up their own samples. The full Demo in January will probably have a meatier "Starter Package" included with it.

However, the Sample Adventure that Erian is referring to will have to wait until the full Demo's release in January (since the Sneak Preview version won't have an operational "Load/Save Encounter" feature).
jpstod wrote:I got jpg's of CCPro Maps and CityDesigner2 Maps I made I can send you to use without restrictions
Jpstod, if your maps are usable at a normal combat-scale (3-10 feet per grid square or hex), please send them to me via e-mail (my addy is at the bottom of every forum post). Please include any info you want me to include in the "credits" caption that'll go under the screenshot. And thanks in advance.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.

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Post by dDemonicAngels » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:40 pm

So we dumb it down for the average joe? Un-beautify it? If it works, I guess you do it.

I can certainly see the point of the map overshadowing the app.

Lurker has a series of battlemaps on the DJ forums that are simple yet elegant. Nothing cluttered, lots of open space, yet it still shows off DJ.

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Post by heruca » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:37 pm

dDemonicAngels wrote:Lurker has a series of battlemaps on the DJ forums that are simple yet elegant. Nothing cluttered, lots of open space, yet it still shows off DJ.
But from what I saw, they all seem to include at least some Fluid art. I can't use any Fluid art without getting in trouble. Even though the screenshot is not a commercially-sold item, it would be on a commercial website, so I think that would be against the DJ EULA. Right?
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.

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Post by erian_7 » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:47 pm

I don't have anything right on hand, but could probably work up some more maps for you, both in simple (and all non-DJ art) DJ maps and in some other formats. After I get everything else you need off my plate of course!
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Post by jpstod » Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:44 am

sorry the CCPro and City Designer are not at a battlemap scale. I use DJ for battlemaps.. :roll:

I would be willing to map up a couple of simple maps for you. My maps tend to be on the simplistic side anyways...no works of art here, just structural details..Been working on a plain old fashion Black and white map for a game secession.

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Post by heruca » Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:13 am

On second thought, I could use one or two campaign-level maps, after all. Go ahead and send them, please.
Last edited by heruca on Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.

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Post by Mind Flayer Monk » Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:28 pm

I'd like to try making some counters depcting PCs or monsters.
I will start working on the art side and if someone can give me hints on what programs to digitize them with (the gimp Im guessing, but I do have photoshop as well). I will try and make say 5-10 and post them in here when I finish
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Post by heruca » Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:51 pm

Unfortunately, I don't have anything in place yet at these forums to support image uploading. For now, you can either post images offsite and link to them, or send them to me via e-mail and I'll post them for you.

I'm looking to see if there's a mod I can add to these phpBB2 forums to allow user-uploading directly. I'd rather not have to redo all the forums from scratch using phpNuke or somesuch. Anyone "in the know" about this stuff, please feel free to recommend something.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.

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Post by erian_7 » Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:11 pm

If you're making standard pics, you could post them over at the Dundjinni site (as they'd work in either app), and we could check them out there. You can just save straight from GIMP or PS to a PNG file and be ready to go.
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Post by heruca » Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:01 pm

Yes, but that seems a little unethical, to use DJ's forums for BRPG image hosting.

Of course, if you're uploading PNGs that are useful in DJ map-making, then no problem.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.

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Post by erian_7 » Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:56 pm

Oh, that's not what I'm getting at at all. Really anything I make for use in BRPG (other than the stuff I'm making directly for you of course, heruca) that could be used in DJ would be a benefit to both communities and so I'd probably post it there as well (though probably in a higher resolution so it'd print better on DJ maps). Thinking on it more, if there is a concern about company resources, SR's site might be an even better location, as it's application-independent.
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